Force. Eventually, over the next few years, he wrote in a memo to employees that they should figure out, in his words, how to get more done with scrappier teams. That’s nice. Joining us now, former Democratic presidential candidate Andrew Yang. It’s a daunting future we have. Mr. Yang, obviously. And you’ve been I said we I was at a was it a book party that that I attended for you, a book of six years, six years ago, talking about this on the horizon and the need for maybe even back then, universal basic income. I guess at this point you’re you’re thinking, wow, it’s accelerating faster than than you even thought. >> Yeah, it’s here even faster than I’d imagined back in 2019 and 2020. And I talked to CEOs who are replacing thousands of customer service workers with AI, entire design departments, even coders are being supplanted. And Becky and I were just talking about how we used to tell our kids, hey, if you major in computer science, you’ll be good to go. And now those graduates are having a hard time finding jobs. It’s starting to appear in the numbers for recent college graduates and entry level white collar work. >> If you you know, if you’re a science fiction believer, it’s you know, I was going to ask you whether the whole Luddite course that we’ve heard for 150 years that it’s never actually just it’s always been better technology long term, maybe not always, but but many times, even more jobs are created from the technologies that’s being displaced, whether it’s internal combustion engines or whatever you want to look at. You would argue this time is different with AI, and then it’s not. I mean, then if you, like I said, science fiction, not just displacing us from work, but maybe just displacing us altogether 100 years from now. >> We have to take a lot of those science fiction style scenarios very seriously. Joe, in my opinion, and the most common job in 29 states is still being a truck driver. You have robot trucks just now hitting the highways. >> That’ll they’ll be gone. >> Dario Amodei, the CEO of anthropic, said, look, we’re going to automate away a lot of the entry level white collar jobs. And he’s right, because I talked to executives at these companies who are doing exactly what Andy Jassy is talking about, Amazon looking around and saying, hey, guys, instead of hiring a bunch of 22 year olds, maybe we should have AI do that work. So I fear for the next generation, because all of the experience that maybe we got in our 20s and 30s, there might not be that kind of ladder available to them. >> Look, Andy Jassy said that he he wants employees to kind of take advantage and learn how to use AI, learn how to do their jobs better, maybe make things easier. Maybe it takes care of some of the grunt level work you don’t like doing, but it allows you to have more space and room to do things creatively. Should we be afraid of that? >> Oh well, what what this means in real life, Becky, is you have a department of six people, let’s say coders or designers, and then you end up eliminating 4 or 5 of them. And then there’s one designer coder empowered by AI. So there’s going to be a beneficiary in the organization, but you’re just not going to need as many people in that department. And that’s going to play out over and over again. >> Pope had some some interesting things, and he’s getting involved. Last. Pope was big on climate change. This might be important. And he says the worlds of Leo, the worlds of science and politics need to immediately tackle this problem with without allowing scientific progress to advance with arrogance, harming those who have to submit to power. And he’s going to host a lot of people. But right now it’s just breakneck. There’s no there’s no governors on on what’s happening whatsoever. >> I mean, if you think about the incentives of the individual firm, it’s just to go, go, go as fast as possible because there’s like a bit of an arms race in terms of compute, literally, and the data and the model literally. And then they’ll look up and say, our competitor is China. So I got to go, go, go. The question is what happens to people. And I’m someone who look, I’m not Anti-progress Anti-innovation I think all that stuff is very positive. But you have to be clear eyed about the impact on people, on organizations, on workers. And in my estimation, this fourth industrial revolution is the most dramatic thing that’s happened to our society in history. I might be the most radical breakthrough in human history. And so we have to think much, much bigger. >> That allows more spare time, that allows people to. We become so rich from AI that maybe you can do UBI, and not everyone has to work five days. You gave me a thumbs up. >> I mean. >> Is that the answer for you? >> To me, that is the answer. The question is how do we get from point A to point B? Because right now the beneficiaries of AI are going to be a small handful of firms, and then the average 22 year old or truck truck driver or whatnot is going to be just looking around saying, where did my job go? And they’re not going to be experiencing that kind of value. That, to me is what government and politics are for. That’s what got me into the Democratic race in 2020. Unfortunately, right now our political class is very, very far away from these problems, and one of our goals should be to try and bring them together the way the Pope’s describing. >> All right. So what do you think of the I don’t know if you call it a rider, but the initiative that’s trying to be pushed into the budget bill, the one big beautiful bill right now that has made it through the House version. We don’t know what’s going to happen with the Senate entirely because of the Byrd rules and others, but it’s a move to, say, state attorney generals. Other states have no way of setting any rules or guidelines or laws around AI, that it should be only allowed at a federal level. And by the way, there are backers, a lot of the big AI names that are backing and kind of lobbying for that. >> Oh, certainly, if you’re an AI company, the last thing you want is a hodgepodge of state rules that you then have to navigate or run afoul of. And a lot of these fronts, including social media, by the way, what you see is you see a federal hands off approach. And then the states at some point step up and say, you know what, I don’t love this treatment of customer data. They’re trying to avoid that in AI. If you’re going to have that, then you would need a buttoned up, sensible approach from the federal government. >> Before you. >> Yes, exactly. And but the incentives for the corporates will be let us do whatever we want. And then even for the individual legislators, it’ll be like, oh, do I want to mess with the AI guys? Not not really. So you’re going to end up with a Wild West approach. >> What do you hear you say that you talk to CEOs who are talking about all the people. They’re they’re getting rid of jobs that they’re replacing with AI. What what do you say to them? What’s your approach to say, hey, this may not be great in the long term. >> I say come clean, I say just. And by the way, Andy Jassy making those public statements, Dario Amodei making those public statements, they’re signaling to us guys, we are going to be getting rid of a lot of workers. We’re going to get leaner and meaner. So please, please, if you are in government, do something about it because their responsibility is not society wide. Their responsibility is just to make the organization successful. And those interests are going to diverge from the average workers pretty sharply. It used to be when you guys saw a company increase headcount, you’d say, okay, good. They’re growing, they’re healthy. Increasingly, headcount is going to be a bad sign, and you’re going to look at them and say, wait a minute, what are you guys doing wrong? >> Always been the case on Wall Street, though I can think back 20 years and even longer than that, where, you know, you talk about